tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6074121.post1107177224164054624..comments2023-12-26T22:08:54.798-05:00Comments on Lotus - Surviving a Dark Time: Hey Diogenes! Over here!Lotushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16774266443353774752noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6074121.post-58413654537338299742010-03-23T21:51:20.836-05:002010-03-23T21:51:20.836-05:00Actually the measure I was going by lists France a...Actually the measure I was going by lists France and Italy as the best. And from what I can tell, France is actually somewhere in between Bismarckian and single-payer. Upon further review, the bag is more mixed than I had remembered: generally speaking Bismarckian, single-payer, and socialized systems all tend to perform quite well, and much better than what we have.TGirschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05296761462380289467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6074121.post-24880313697077965612010-03-14T15:11:59.953-05:002010-03-14T15:11:59.953-05:00this bill moves us more toward a Bismarckian syste...<i>this bill moves us more toward a Bismarckian system</i><br /><br />Except that Bismarckian systems involve nonprofit insurance overseen by tight government regulation. I see no reason to believe the current proposal will move us in that direction in any more than a purely symbolic way.<br /><br /><i>the top-ranked health care systems in the world are Bismarckian, rather than single-payer or NHS-style</i><br /><br />According to one measure and even there it would be possible to argue the particulars chosen and the relative emphasis placed on each - and even there the differences among the 30 countries are hardly significant. (I also couldn't help but notice that by that measurement, far and away the best health system in the world is found is Estonia.)<br /><br /><i>I'm more than willing to take a step back if it will enable two steps forward</i><br /><br />I'm sure - but I maintain this bill is more a case of taking two steps back to take one step forward. Or, at best, one step back to take one step forward, with all the attention on the step forward while the insurance industry giggles with glee over the step (or two) back.Lotushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774266443353774752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6074121.post-12124109902091390462010-03-14T11:29:28.847-05:002010-03-14T11:29:28.847-05:00I'm just not sure this bill is as bad as you s...I'm just not sure this bill is as bad as you seem to think it is. Sure, it could have been a lot better, but I think our primary disconnect is our disagreement about what a "perfect" bill would look like. Your preference is for something like the NHS, with single-payer being your first runner up. Whereas my preference is for a German-style Bismarckian system, with single-payer as a distant second. It seems to me that this bill moves us more toward a Bismarckian system, though not far enough in that direction.<br /><br />It should be noted that the top-ranked health care systems in the world are Bismarckian, rather than single-payer or NHS-style.<br /><br />I won't re-kick the dead "pragmatism-vs.-idealism" horse, other than to say that if you genuinely think this bill will be worse than the status quo (or even no different from the status quo), then by all means you should oppose it. I support it because I do think it will be a significant improvement over the status quo.<br /><br />(It may surprise you a bit to learn that I'm more than willing to take a step back if it will enable two steps forward -- where we generally disagree is over whether a particular step back will actually enable such forward steps.)TGirschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05296761462380289467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6074121.post-15279667909159473152010-03-12T22:53:08.415-05:002010-03-12T22:53:08.415-05:00I'm not sure that his being interested in the ...I'm not sure that his being interested in the CIA proves more than that he's a pretty standard cold war type liberal - which I think we already knew - but I do think what <a href="http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/34720" rel="nofollow">fflambeau recalled</a> at FDL is relevant here:<br /><br />"Kos, it might be recalled, during the Democratic primaries in 2008 never once addressed issues raised by DK but preferred to call him 'ugly' and put #!# after his name, like swear words."Lotushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774266443353774752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6074121.post-25635055994647552832010-03-12T13:48:24.915-05:002010-03-12T13:48:24.915-05:00Hey, Richard! Good to "see" you!Hey, Richard! Good to "see" you!Lotushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774266443353774752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6074121.post-60432665231903178682010-03-12T09:44:55.990-05:002010-03-12T09:44:55.990-05:00the amazing thing about Kos is that he actually cl...the amazing thing about Kos is that he actually claims to have spent time being trained to serve in the CIA<br /><br />I never trust anyone who any connection to the CIA, but, it's just my paranoia, after all, the CIA has always been scrupulous about respecting the wall between foreign and domestic activityRichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09164564889343805575noreply@blogger.com